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Post by tornado on Nov 2, 2016 11:28:27 GMT -5
The Eastern Iowa Airport, Cedar Rapids, Iowa: METAR KCID 020452Z AUTO 05009KT 10SM BKN050 OVC060 17/07 A3000 RMK AO2 SLP157 T01720072 METAR KCID 020552Z AUTO 08008KT 10SM VCTS -RA SCT048 BKN060 OVC070 14/11 A3003 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE RAB12 TSE45 SLP166 P0010 60010 T01390106 10183 20139 402330117 50009 SPECI KCID 020611Z AUTO 06010KT 10SM -RA BKN046 OVC055 14/11 A3002 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE AND E P0000 T01390106
ALDARS entered a thunderstorm ending time, when it should have been a beginning time.
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Post by skobie on Nov 2, 2016 11:57:01 GMT -5
Now I'm even getting confused with this ALDARS crap. Does it start a TS remark with VCTS in the present weather or only TS (which I'm not even sure it can report)? Either way, it's still wrong and completely confusing to everyone, just creates unnecessary extra work trying to keep track of what it's often doing wrong (when I could just edit it to be correct and not worry.....because that's what I do as a weather observer), and in particular makes no sense. But then I think of the retired air traffic controllers who make this stuff up.....oh yeah, they have no sense. Way to go, Ken and Joe!!!
skobie
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Post by hlsto2 on Nov 2, 2016 18:04:21 GMT -5
whether ALDARS or an obserer begins a VCTS, no corresponding begin time will appear in remarks.
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Post by TCU 2U2 on Nov 3, 2016 6:18:05 GMT -5
whether ALDARS or an obserer begins a VCTS, no corresponding begin time will appear in remarks. Isn't VCTS only to be reported at automated stations, not augmented stations?
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Post by skobie on Nov 3, 2016 7:01:58 GMT -5
That's what I would think, since there's really no need at an augmented station and I wouldn't personally use VCTS in the body, but you know what the powers that be say and that they'll certainly look in to it if it's wrong..........yeah right.
skobie
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Post by coldlover on Nov 3, 2016 7:11:54 GMT -5
According to the 7900.5C-- a beginning time "should" be coded for a VCTS. Section 10.29. Beginning and/or ending of a Thunderstorm. A thunderstorm is considered to begin at the station when thunder is heard, overhead lightning is observed and the local noise level is such as might prevent hearing thunder, or lightning is detected by an automated sensor within 10 miles of the airport.
So LTG reported within 5-10 miles (VCTS) should have a beginning time according to the FAA's own instruction manual. Of course when your trying to speed something up that is not right by eliminating CWO's with the least amount of resistance possible , you will cut corners not caring (or knowing) you contradict yourself.
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Post by skobie on Nov 3, 2016 7:23:05 GMT -5
But ASOS/ALDARS won't put in the Begin time on its own and it seems to be up in the air on whether to back it up or not because we don't want to upset the dog and pony (Ken and Joe) show.....makes perfect sense (sarcasm) !!! I wouldn't ever use or transmit VCTS anyway, but I'm sure FAA would say "it's working just as it's designed to work". Uh, yeah, isn't that the reason we needed and still need CWOs in the first place dumbasses? skobie
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Post by tornado on Nov 3, 2016 11:13:14 GMT -5
There are some sites, where TSB times are set to begin with VCTS. For example, Laredo, Texas:
METAR KLRD 201956Z 02012KT 10SM SCT060 SCT100 33/19 A2998 RMK AO2 SLP151 T03330194 $ SPECI KLRD 202044Z 02028G40KT 2 1/2SM HZ SQ BKN065 28/19 A2999 RMK AO2 PK WND 02040/2041 VIS 1 1/4V5 LTG DSNT ALQDS $ SPECI KLRD 202052Z 02033G38KT 4SM VCTS HZ BKN065 26/19 A3000 RMK AO2 PK WND 02040/2041 LTG DSNT ALQDS TSB52 $ METAR KLRD 202056Z 03030G38KT 5SM VCTS HZ SCT065 26/19 A3001 RMK AO2 PK WND 02040/2041 LTG DSNT ALQDS TSB52 SLP163 T02560189 55016 $ METAR KLRD 202156Z 01011KT 10SM -TSRA FEW055 SCT075 OVC090 23/21 A3006 RMK AO2 PK WND 03033/2100 LTG DSNT ALQDS RAB05 SLP182 P0007 T02330211 $
That was from October 20th. The TSB52 was at the beginning of the VCTS. It seems to me that complies with the 7900, as opposed to TSB times that are configured to begin when the VCTS becomes a TS. Of course, the above shows that hazards can occur near thunderstorms, not just inside thunderstorms; as the squall to 40 knots struck the airport even before the VCTS officially began!
It could be that this site does not have the 3.10 upgrade installed, and that TSB times for VCTS will disappear once that happens.
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Post by tornado on Nov 3, 2016 12:22:10 GMT -5
Sometimes you have to manually enter the times. An observer at my site, during his last thunderstorm, had ALDARS include TSE52, just as the METAR transmitted. He had just begun a thunderstorm! So he couldn't have TSE52 with TS in present weather at H+53, that would be contradictory. ALDARS did the exact opposite of reality, by entering TSE52 when it should have been TSB52.
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Post by skobie on Nov 3, 2016 12:30:00 GMT -5
Yes, I have no use for VCTS personally as it's already taken care of in my remarks. If I hear thunder, I'm putting TS in the body, which generally coincidentally happens when a LTG stroke gets to about 10 miles out. If the LTG is then 5-10 miles out (and thus the TS), I have VC LTG and TS in my remarks. A VCTS would be overkill and, yes, some do move very fast.
skobie
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Post by tornado on Nov 3, 2016 14:00:28 GMT -5
Dubuque, Iowa, 2 Nov 2016: METAR KDBQ 020553Z AUTO 03008KT 10SM OVC075 14/07 A3005 RMK AO2 SLP173 T01440067 10172 20144 402280117 53005 SPECI KDBQ 020635Z AUTO 03010KT 10SM VCTS OVC065 14/07 A3005 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT S AND SW TSE29 T01440072
Another case when ALDARS should have instructed ASOS to put TSB29, instead of TSE29.
Meanwhile, over at Cedar Rapids, Iowa, ALDARS tricked ASOS into recording a 2-minute thunderstorm:
METAR KCID 021052Z 05018KT 4SM +TSRA BR SCT035 BKN041 OVC075 13/12 A3007 RMK AO2 WSHFT 1038 LTG DSNT ALQDS RAB07 TSB11E13B49 SLP182 P0013 T01280122
Stillwater, Oklahoma, fell victim to ALDARS generating 2 TSB times, with no intervening TSE time: METAR KSWO 030153Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM FEW055 23/19 A3012 RMK AO2 TSB0054B22E36 SLP187 T02280194
Or, ALDARS might be confused as to when the thunderstorm really ended, by including 2 ending times, as it did at Spirit Of St. Louis Airport, Missouri: METAR KSUS 030154Z AUTO 13003KT 4SM +TSRA BR FEW012 BKN032 OVC055 19/19 A3016 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE TSE25E27B54 SLP209 P0013 T01890189
ASOS got real confused at Quad-City Airport, in Moline, Illinois. It restarted a thunderstorm after 1-minute; but ended that thunderstorm at 2030Z, while keeping TS in present weather at 2052Z: METAR KMLI 022052Z 33006KT 3SM +TSRA BR BKN017 OVC024 16/14 A3006 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE-S TSB1954E09B10E30 SLP179 P0028 60029 T01610144 55004 Also on 2 Nov, South Bend, Indiana:METAR KSBN 022354Z 34007KT 5SM VCTS -RA BR SCT025 BKN035 OVC070 17/16 A3010 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT ALQDS RAB11 TSB37E52 SLP192 P0009 60009 T01670156 10206 20161 53003 SPECI KSBN 022357Z 01005KT 5SM VCTS -RA BR BKN025 BKN035 OVC070 16/16 A3010 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT ALQDS P0000 T01610156 METAR KSBN 030054Z 17006KT 4SM VCTS RA BR SCT060 BKN075 OVC095 16/16 A3013 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT SE-W TSE54 SLP201 P0011 T01610156 There was VCTS that entire hour; so why did ALDARS include TSE54?
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Post by skobie on Nov 3, 2016 14:13:49 GMT -5
And how exactly can this not be an easy software fix (and why hasn't it been fixed long ago?)? Oh ya, it's because it took 20 years to be able to manually put in 2 FEW cloud layers, not to mention the fact that ASOS is built on 1980s computer technology. I'm sure Bill Gates would be proud that his original computer prototype was used for something!
skobie
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Post by tornado on Nov 4, 2016 10:40:09 GMT -5
Thu 3 Nov 2016: Prescott, Arizona: METAR KPRC 031953Z 14016G23KT 10SM -RA SCT060 BKN080 12/08 A3028 RMK AO2 PK WND 14031/1933 LTG DSNT S RAB29 TSB24E25 SLP218 SHRA E-SW P0000 T01170083
A 1-minute thunderstorm was recorded. Searcy, Arkansas: SPECI KSRC 032332Z AUTO 22003KT 10SM CLR 26/20 A3017 RMK AO2 TSB28E32 SPECI KSRC 032347Z AUTO 33006KT 10SM VCTS FEW065 25/20 A3018 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE AND NW TSB28E32B36 METAR KSRC 032356Z AUTO 36011G15KT 10SM VCTS FEW042 SCT065 25/20 A3018 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE TSB28E32B36 SLP225 T02500200 10300 20250 53005
A 4-minute thunderstorm was recorded; then restarted 4 minutes later. Springfield Regional Airport, Missouri: METAR KSGF 030652Z 18008KT 10SM SCT047 BKN075 BKN100 20/17 A3017 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT W-N SLP205 T02000167 SPECI KSGF 030729Z 01013KT 10SM VCTS FEW018 SCT027 BKN039 20/17 A3020 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT W-NE TSE23 PRESRR T02000167
ALDARS included TSE23, when it should have been TSB23. Norfolk International Airport, Virginia:SPECI KORF 040431Z 36009KT 2 1/2SM R05/6000VP6000FT RA BR FEW032 SCT040 OVC060 18/17 A2996 RMK AO2 P0013 T01830172 SPECI KORF 040440Z VRB03KT 4SM -RA BR SCT039 BKN060 OVC075 18/17 A2996 RMK AO2 P0015 T01830172 METAR KORF 040451Z VRB04KT 6SM -RA BR FEW035 OVC065 18/17 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP145 P0016 T01830172 402830150 ALDARS missed lightning within 30 miles of KORF: Nearby site Newport News included the lightning: SPECI KPHF 040442Z 33006KT 2 1/2SM +RA BR FEW035 BKN060 OVC095 18/17 A2997 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT SW P0005 T01830172 SPECI KPHF 040452Z 33004KT 3SM RA BR FEW035 BKN055 OVC080 18/17 A2997 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT SE P0007 METAR KPHF 040454Z 33004KT 3SM RA BR FEW035 BKN055 OVC080 18/17 A2997 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT SE SLP148 P0007 T01830172 402830150
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Post by tornado on Nov 7, 2016 10:42:15 GMT -5
At some smaller airports, ASOS is configured to report an observation every 20 minutes, instead of taking SPECIs. An example would be at Hobbs, New Mexico:
METAR KHOB 070415Z AUTO 19003KT 4SM BR FEW003 14/14 A3009 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N METAR KHOB 070435Z AUTO 19006KT 3SM BR BKN002 15/15 A3008 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND NE METAR KHOB 070455Z AUTO 19011KT 1 1/2SM VCTS BR OVC002 15/15 A3007 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND NW METAR KHOB 070515Z AUTO 18011KT 1 1/4SM VCTS BR OVC001 16/16 A3009 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND NE METAR KHOB 070535Z AUTO 19010KT 3SM VCTS BR OVC001 16/16 A3010 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND NE METAR KHOB 070555Z AUTO 20010KT 3SM VCTS BR OVC002 16/16 A3010 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND NE METAR KHOB 070615Z AUTO 22006KT 5SM VCTS BR BKN005 OVC011 16/16 A3011 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND NE METAR KHOB 070635Z AUTO 21006KT 5SM VCTS BR BKN006 OVC013 15/15 A3010 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE
But while VCTS was reported, it's possible that a thunderstorm within 5 miles could slip by, unreported. That would be possible if lightning struck within 5 miles, right after one of the reports; and the 15-minute reporting period for TS ended before the next report (taken in 20-minute intervals). That's what happened last night at Lea County Regional Airport, near Hobbs:
2 lightning strikes occurred at 0559Z. Since the next report was at 0615Z, a thunderstorm reported by ASOS would have ended at 0614Z. That's using the real time of the lightning strikes. Adding 1 minute of processing time by ALDARS would take the ending time to 0615Z. Regardless, ASOS did not record TSB0559E14 or TSB00E15, on the 0615Z "METAR".
The string of reports out of Hobbs, would lead one to think there was no lightning within 5 miles, when that was not the case.
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Post by tornado on Nov 7, 2016 14:14:41 GMT -5
Galveston, Texas, Mon 7 Nov 2016:
Between 0730-0830Z, Galveston (KGLS) recorded VCTS: SPECI KGLS 070723Z AUTO 07008KT 10SM VCTS FEW028 SCT041 OVC080 A3006 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT SW AND NW RAE01 P0000 $ SPECI KGLS 070742Z AUTO 29009KT 3SM VCTS RA FEW005 BKN017 OVC080 A3006 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND NW RAE01B38 P0009 $ SPECI KGLS 070744Z AUTO 28010KT 1 1/2SM VCTS RA FEW005 BKN017 OVC080 A3007 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND NW RAE01B38 P0019 $ SPECI KGLS 070748Z AUTO 33003KT 3/4SM VCTS +RA BKN010 BKN022 OVC033 A3007 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND S AND SW RAE01B38 P0039 $ METAR KGLS 070752Z AUTO 27006KT 1/2SM VCTS +RA SCT008 BKN014 OVC032 A3007 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND S AND SW RAE01B38 SLP184 P0046 $ SPECI KGLS 070757Z AUTO VRB04KT 1SM +RA SCT008 BKN012 OVC022 A3008 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N AND S AND SW P0006 $ SPECI KGLS 070810Z AUTO 03010KT 3SM VCTS RA FEW006 OVC014 A3008 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT S AND SW P0017 $ SPECI KGLS 070818Z AUTO 09008KT 6SM VCTS RA SCT010 BKN029 OVC095 A3007 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT S AND SW P0018 $ SPECI KGLS 070824Z AUTO 10006KT 8SM VCTS -RA SCT008 BKN050 OVC095 A3007 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT SE-SW P0018 $ SPECI KGLS 070838Z AUTO 09004KT 10SM FEW008 SCT046 BKN110 A3007 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT NE-S RAE36 P0019 $
Lightning data shows that TS ought to have been recorded:
McKinney, Texas, Mon 7 Nov 2016:
METAR KTKI 071653Z 18011KT 9SM OVC008 18/18 A3014 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT SW-NW SLP209 P0002 T01830183 SPECI KTKI 071727Z 15004KT 2 1/2SM TSRA BR OVC009 18/18 A3013 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT SW-N RAB04 TSB11E14B25 P0002 T01830183 SPECI KTKI 071731Z 11006KT 5SM RA BR OVC009 18/18 A3013 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT SW AND W RAB04 TSB11E14B25E31 CIG 007V012 P0003 T01830183 SPECI KTKI 071742Z 14006KT 4SM VCTS +RA BR OVC009 18/18 A3013 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT SW-N RAB04 TSB11E14B25E31E41 P0005 T01830183 SPECI KTKI 071746Z 14007KT 2SM RA BR OVC009 18/18 A3013 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT SW-N RAB04 TSB11E14B25E31E41B44E45 P0005 T01830183 METAR KTKI 071753Z 14005KT 4SM RA BR BKN009 OVC014 18/18 A3013 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT ALQDS RAB04 TSB11E14B25E31E41B44E45 SLP206 P0007 60019 T01830183 10189 20161 58006
- ALDARS recorded a 3-minute thunderstorm, ending it too early; with ASOS not sending SPECIs during the period
covering 1711-1714Z. - ALDARS recorded another thunderstorm, this time for 6-minutes; ending that thunderstorm too early by rule (period
of 1725-1731Z). - After erroneously ending the thunderstorm at 1731Z, ALDARS ended another thunderstorm at 1741Z, without first
beginning a new thunderstorm. - ALDARS then recorded a 1-minute thunderstorm, from 1744-1745Z.
- As a result, the 1753Z METAR recorded TSB11E14B25E31E41B44E45, little of which was actually correct.
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