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Post by skywatcher on Feb 1, 2013 7:36:00 GMT -5
I started this topic on Unions. As for the extra optional / sicks days the Union does for Union members does not apply to us all. Those extra days only applies if your contractor agrees. My current contractor, and without naming their names, our new contractor has not agreed to extra days either. So our site has never benefited from Union efforts other than the pay schedules / Sunday rates. The whole thing is a catch 22. It is like insurance, if you have it nothing happens, but if everyone is not on board, it causes hard feelings to arise.
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Post by drizzy on Feb 1, 2013 8:11:57 GMT -5
It seems some contractors are willing to give more while others play hard ball during negotiations. This must be why some of us make 10k extra while others don't get much.
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Post by hokiefan on Feb 1, 2013 9:47:07 GMT -5
Let's show a little math for those who seem to remain ignorant regarding the benefits of joining a union:
At my site the DOL WD dictates the following:
Observer Hourly Wage = 20.32 H&W = 3.71 10 paid holidays 2 weeks vacation after 1 year 3 weeks vacation after 5 years 4 weeks vacation after 15 years
Now, here is what we have with our PATCO CBA:
Observer Hourly Wage = 23.50 H&W = 5.35 11 paid holidays 8 personal days 2 weeks vacation after 1 year 3 weeks vacation after 5 years 4 weeks vacation after 10 years
It doesn't take a genius to see that paying about 50 bucks a month in union dues is worth it.
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Post by skywatcher on Feb 1, 2013 12:38:37 GMT -5
I agree due to the pay rates, extra benefits that being a union member has ups. However, our site is unionized, but Patco has not done us right compared to some. You are getting twice the H&W we get - ours is $3.70, and we get zero optional days. So why should some union sites benefit more when we pay the same dues. What happens when the new contractor takes over and does like my current contractor does and they refuse the optional days and doubled H&W pay?
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Post by wxlover on Feb 1, 2013 12:58:53 GMT -5
The union still has to negotiate with the contractor. Some contractors might be more difficult to deal with. I don't know if you can form your own local union and negotiate on your own behalf. If that is an option, you could do that if you aren't satisfied with your current union.
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Post by fu on Feb 1, 2013 13:05:06 GMT -5
How long has your site been a union site skywatcher? It takes time to accrue decent benefits. Tuso can't ask to double you H&W payment in 1 year he has to do it over several years.
Also some of the vendors are notorious for not wanting to deal with the union, fortunately one of them (Rockhill) will not be dealing with CWO's anymore.
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Post by skywatcher on Feb 1, 2013 13:16:39 GMT -5
I have been a member for 4 years, but on my 3rd year at this site. I also found out through Tuso that our new contractor is hard to deal with and has never budged on optional days. However, I am glad to be working this job. Some former co-workers will be out of work come May.
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Post by hokiefan on Feb 1, 2013 14:23:34 GMT -5
I've often wondered what the effects of generous CBAs have on the CWO program. Are we fast forwarding our demise by demanding too much? Is the FAA looking to avoid giving awards to contractors that have been soft in negotiotions with the union?
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Post by irishwx on Feb 1, 2013 17:41:56 GMT -5
FU, All but four of those sites are in right to work states. I still standby the unemployment rate being lower in right to work states, b/c that's what the numbers say. Close to 1.5% lower in fact.
Also, seems that I am not the only one on here that sees that Unions aren't all they are cracked up to be. Each union is treated unfairly depending on which contractor you have. That's insane, in my opinion. Someone above posted making your own union if you are unsatisfied with your own and what it has been doing. Hello, why join another unioin. Speak up for yourself! Can nobody actually negotiate for yourselves? Why depend on some idiot that probably has never done your job to try and get you more money/benefits etc... Makes no sense to me.
As far as the "bad feelings" or "mooching" some say us non union members do. If that's the case, I have not heard about it at my location and doubt they ever would. We don't believe in a bad work environments and not going to let a right of choice to come in between and cause conflictions.
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Post by fu on Feb 1, 2013 17:56:54 GMT -5
"Why depend on some idiot that probably has never done your job to try and get you more money/benefits etc... Makes no sense to me."
You're a non union member at a union site correct? Who do you think got you the wages and benefits you are getting now?
"Can nobody actually negotiate for yourselves?"
Who do you plan on negotiating with?
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Post by skobie on Feb 4, 2013 8:39:42 GMT -5
Just an FYI for those that are not understanding my last post on getting pay increases, etc. You are at the whims of the Wage Determination to get a monetary increase in anything (wages, H&W, vacation, etc). We went 5 years at my site with no increase in any of these things. We had enough of that, so we joined a Union and immediately started making a fair amount more overall than the Wage Determination. That was about 13 years ago and we're doing just fine now as well. The only way to trump the Wage Determination is to go Union and have a Collective Bargaining Agreement in place where you can negotiate your own wages, etc. Doing your job well might get you a pat on the back, but it will not get you any monetary increases in this line of work. I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble. Do continue to do your job well, but join a Union while you're at it to get monetary increases. A contractor cannot work with you without a CBA in place and if you're doing your job well, you can use that as a negotiating tool to help you get some increases. Good luck! skobie PS - As Reverend Martin Luther King once stated "'Right To Work' means there are no rights and there is no work!" I couldn't agree more. In addition, these so called "Right To Work" states are the same states that have the most welfare per capital and lower average salaries amongst other things. Source: www.nea.org/home/52880.htmCheck it out. An interesting read to say the least.
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Post by weatheri on Feb 4, 2013 14:04:42 GMT -5
Ours is even better:
sick days personal days 4 wks vacation at 10 years 5 wks vacation at 15 years All employees get Sunday Differential Wages and H&W over the SCA All PT employees are pro rated but enjoy the benefits.
Close to 10K more a year than the SCA for a FT over 10 years.
Yes, really worth the 2 hours a month (Around 650.00 a year) for a full timer and one hour a month for the part timer.
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Post by coldlover on Feb 4, 2013 16:58:46 GMT -5
I'am not a big union fan as I usually bat from the other side of the plate when it comes to those political issues; but after being in this field for 14 years with a family,, I have learned to become a switch hitter. It's simply the way to go,, most that disagree haven't been in "MAJORS" long enough to see what can happen. Pulling for yourself in this field usually doesn't get the job done when push comes to shove. I have been around long enough to see the negative results of not being lawyerdd up. Lawyers run the country, and I'd rather have the chances of being in a union and not in one when it comes to this field. For the price of cable tv (which I dont' have) I'll run the risk.... For the employees at my site that don't pay dues,,, I don't really care,, at least my job is somewhat more secure then theirs.. What comes around, goes around. When time permits-- I'll make them pay a tab here or there.. Glad I have job in the first place.
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binovc
Junior Member
Posts: 84
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Post by binovc on Feb 4, 2013 17:12:36 GMT -5
My opinion is that a station with both union and non-union members is that the non-union members should get strictly wage determination pay and benefits. I completely agree that everyone should be able to choose union or non-union, but I do not like that the non-union people are basically riding along for free as it were, getting union benefits without paying union dues. And it's worse than that because PATCO is going to want to work harder for full-union stations vs partial union stations. Also, on a related issue. I wish that PATCO could work out ONE SINGLE CONTRACT. We all do the same work, and the only difference in the contracts should be geographical cost of living differences based on some acceptable standard. I don't know how this could be done, due to the many contractors involved, but to me that's the way it should be. I guess our great govmint is trying to tell us that we're only worth as little as the contractors can get away with paying us. By the way, is the contract tower program the same, with wages and benefits all over the scale just depending on who the contractor is? What a game we're forced to play.
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coco
Full Member
Posts: 111
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Post by coco on Feb 4, 2013 18:10:48 GMT -5
" I wish that PATCO could work out ONE SINGLE CONTRACT"
That has been my beef with PATCO for several years. When our station was with SEIU we enjoyed 6 personal days a year and 5 weeks of vacation. After switching to PATCO we lost our personal days because we were told the FAA would no longer pay for them. With our current vendor we lost our 5th week of vacation. Our wage increases have always been minimal and we barely get more than the minimum H&W rate. The reason we dropped SEIU was because it took two years of calling and leaving messages several times a week before we received a response from them. That's right - TWO YEARS!!!! At least Jerry Tuso will return our calls in a reasonable amount of time. When all is said and done though...I believe we make a decent salary and am very glad that I even have a job......
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