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Post by tornado on Oct 29, 2015 13:19:10 GMT -5
The FAA claims that only winter weather classifies as "bad weather". Thunderstorms have been removed from a site's bad weather calculation. If anyone has any information of weather delays, feel free to post them here. I'll start. Today I looked at flightstats.com to see if there were any "bad weather" delays. The first one, from Newark (KEWR) is due to wind:
It's not just private websites mentioning that; the FAA's own site has the same information:
On that web page, "Current Reroutes" can be accessed under the "Severe WX" tab:
If WIND is listed under "Severe Weather", then how can thunderstorms not figure into a site's "bad weather" score? 57 delays at Newark, due to wind. Who knew?
This, of course, was a case of delays, not a ground stop.
Ground stops are newsworthy to local TV stations:
Ground Stop at KCLT Airport due to TS
The FAA Ground Delay Program, Explained National Airspace System Status
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Post by tornado on Oct 30, 2015 10:41:14 GMT -5
Currently, there is a ground stop to Austin, Texas:
The stated reason, is due to thunderstorms.
The CWO is doing a great job: METAR KAUS 301353Z 05020G28KT 3/4SM R17L/4000VP6000FT +TSRA BR BKN007CB OVC012 22/22 A2974 RMK AO2 PK WND 05028/1353 TWR VIS 1 SLP063 CONS LTGICCCCG OHD TS OHD MOV NE P0127 T02220222 METAR KAUS 301453Z 09014G46KT 040V110 1/2SM R17L/1800V3000FT +TSRA FG OVC004CB 20/19 A2979 RMK AO2 PK WND 11046/1451 WSHFT 1401 TWR VIS 1 SLP080 CONS LTGICCCCG OHD TS OHD MOV NE P0576 60722 T02000194 53012
With LAWRS, you would likely not get LTG frequency or type, possibly not even TS movement.
Continuous lightning? Yes, the data backs that up:
Probable LTGCG AT AP at 1444Z or so:
There is a convective SIGMET out for that area:
The re-route info is shown under the "Severe Wx" tab on the NAS Status web page:
It looks like Southwest 422 from El Paso, is circling, waiting to land:
So, the FAA is trying to have it both ways. Thunderstorms cause ground stops, but are not considered bad weather, since they have been
removed from a site's BWO score. Is there any information available, as to which flights were affected? Yes, some:
The CBS-TV affiliate in Austin, KEYE-TV, is running a news story on the airport delays: No Flights at Airport Due to Weather
Austin CWO: PM me when you have time, if you'd like to co-ordinate efforts.
Update, from the Austin Statesman newspaper: Expect Delays, as Austin Air Traffic Control Tower takes on Water FAA press release: Press Release – FAA Statement on Austin Air Traffic Control Tower and Terminal Radar Approach Control facilityOctober 30, 2015 FAA Statement: The ground floor of the Austin Air Traffic Control Tower and Terminal Radar Approach Control facility was flooded by approximately six inches of water during today’s heavy storm. The Houston Air Route Traffic Control Center, which normally controls high-altitude traffic over the area, assumed responsibility for the airspace. The FAA is assessing the damage to the facility. We expect to begin providing control tower services as soon as possible today. Meanwhile, FAA technicians will assess any water damage to wiring and other equipment. In the interim, Houston Center will provide radar separation services for aircraft. For safety reasons, the FAA will increase spacing between aircraft using Austin Bergstrom International Airport, which could result in delays during busy periods. Passengers should contact their airlines for information about specific flights. Contact: FAA spokesman Lynn Lunsford,lynn.lunsford@faa.gov. 817-222-4455. Austin still under a tornado watch, as of 1:15 p.m.: Alas, tornadoes have been removed from the FAA's "Bad Weather Score". As of 2 p.m. today, Austin led the world in airport delays.
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Post by toofarnorth on Nov 3, 2015 15:41:22 GMT -5
+FC with CLR LAWRS says so...
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Post by tornado on Nov 4, 2015 11:06:59 GMT -5
Wed 4 Nov 2015: Ground stop to McCarran Intl Airport in Las Vegas (KLAS):
The reason given, is weather/low ceilings:
This is what is meant by weather/low ceilings: METAR KLAS 041256Z 04004KT 10SM SCT065 BKN095 OVC120 12/01 A2975 RMK AO2 SLP067 T01220011 SPECI KLAS 041337Z 34008KT 10SM -RA OVC055 12/02 A2976 RMK AO2 RAB35 P0000 T01170022 METAR KLAS 041356Z 33007KT 10SM -RA BKN050 BKN075 OVC100 11/04 A2977 RMK AO2 RAB35 SLP075 P0000 T01110039 METAR KLAS 041456Z 34007KT 10SM SCT060 BKN085 OVC110 11/02 A2979 RMK AO2 RAE29 SLP082 CIG LWR W VCSH P0000 60000 T01060022 53016 SPECI KLAS 041526Z 25010KT 10SM -RA BKN040 BKN060 OVC085 11/03 A2982 RMK AO2 RAB21 PRESRR P0000 T01060033 METAR KLAS 041556Z 25011G21KT 5SM RA SCT010 BKN030 OVC060 08/06 A2985 RMK AO2 RAB21 SLP102 P0004 T00830056 $
This is the radar animation up to 1600Z today:
I didn't post a lightning display, because the nearest lightning has been in NW New Mexico.
So, MVFR conditions have caused a ground stop at a busy airport.
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Post by skobie on Nov 4, 2015 11:48:19 GMT -5
Great work as usual Tornado. Even MVFR conditions can cause over an hour groundstop delays at airports. Who knew? Not the FAA certainly.
skobie
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Post by tornado on Nov 5, 2015 9:29:52 GMT -5
Thu 5 Nov 2015: Ground stop to Philadelphia International Airport in Pennsylvania (KPHL):
The advisory lists weather/low ceiling as the cause of the ground stop. The number of flights affected is listed:
Specifically, what low ceilings are impacting KPHL?
True, Philadlephia Intl has not had those minimal ceilings or visibilities, at times:
METAR KPHL 051054Z 08003KT 5SM BR FEW003 BKN007 OVC035 14/12 A3030 RMK AO2 SLP260 T01390122 $ SPECI KPHL 051128Z 10004KT 4SM BR BKN008 BKN029 OVC065 14/12 A3030 RMK AO2 T01440122 $ METAR KPHL 051154Z 00000KT 3SM BR OVC007 14/12 A3031 RMK AO2 SLP262 T01440122 10144 20133 51003 $ SPECI KPHL 051200Z 00000KT 2SM -RA BR OVC007 14/12 A3031 RMK AO2 RAB00 P0000 T01440122 $ SPECI KPHL 051202Z 00000KT 3/4SM -RA BR OVC007 14/12 A3031 RMK AO2 RAB00 VIS NE 3 P0000 T01440122 RVRNO $ SPECI KPHL 051206Z 00000KT 1 1/2SM -RA BR OVC006 14/12 A3031 RMK AO2 RAB00 VIS NE 3/4 P0000 T01440122 $ METAR KPHL 051254Z 00000KT 1SM -RA BR BKN005 BKN030 OVC038 14/13 A3031 RMK AO2 RAB00 SLP264 BKN005 V SCT P0006 T01440128 RVRNO $ SPECI KPHL 051309Z 07003KT 1SM -RA BR SCT005 BKN028 OVC038 14/13 A3031 RMK AO2 P0002 T01440128 RVRNO $ SPECI KPHL 051319Z 10003KT 1SM -RA BR FEW005 BKN033 OVC046 15/13 A3031 RMK AO2 P0002 T01500133 RVRNO $ METAR KPHL 051354Z 10005KT 1 3/4SM BR FEW007 BKN036 BKN047 16/13 A3030 RMK AO2 RAE40 SLP258 P0004 T01560133 $
So why aren't low CIGS/VIS reflected in a site's BWO score, if they can cause ground stops?
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Post by tornado on Nov 5, 2015 18:58:18 GMT -5
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Post by tornado on Nov 12, 2015 15:48:08 GMT -5
During the past 2 days, there have been some weather-related ground delays in the NAS. At Philadelphia, one was issued on the 10th at 2044Z, due to low ceilings:
As posted recently, PHL needs certain approach minima to separate incoming traffic:
Once the KPHL weather dropped below those minimums, the ground stop was issued:
METAR KPHL 101954Z 05009KT 3SM -DZ BR OVC010 16/14 A2985 RMK AO2 RAE31DZB31 TSE1856 SLP108 P0001 T01560139 SPECI KPHL 102023Z 05012KT 2 1/2SM -DZ BR BKN008 OVC012 16/14 A2984 RMK AO2 P0000 T01560139 $ SPECI KPHL 102047Z 05011G18KT 2 1/2SM -DZ BR BKN006 OVC011 16/14 A2983 RMK AO2 P0000 T01560139 $ METAR KPHL 102054Z 06010G18KT 2 1/2SM -DZ BR BKN006 OVC011 16/14 A2983 RMK AO2 SLP102 P0000 60001 T01560139 56026 $ SPECI KPHL 102147Z 05009KT 2 1/2SM -DZ BR BKN007 OVC011 16/14 A2982 RMK AO2 DZE20B47 P0001 T01560139 $ METAR KPHL 102154Z 05009KT 2 1/2SM -DZ BR BKN007 OVC011 16/14 A2982 RMK AO2 DZE20B47 SLP096 P0001 T01560139 $ SPECI KPHL 102217Z 05009KT 2SM -DZ BR OVC006 16/14 A2981 RMK AO2 P0000 T01560139 $ METAR KPHL 102254Z 05008KT 2 1/2SM -DZ BR OVC006 16/14 A2980 RMK AO2 SLP092 P0001 T01560139 $ METAR KPHL 102354Z 06010KT 2SM -DZ BR BKN005 OVC011 16/14 A2978 RMK AO2 SLP085 P0001 60004 T01560139 10167 20156 58016 $
The ceiling dropped below minimums at 2047Z, to 600 feet, when 700 feet is required for proper spacing. Knowing that, an outsider can tell the reason for the SPECIs at 2047Z and 2217Z, was to alert ATC that the ceiling had dropped below the 700 foot minimum. At 2147Z, the ceiling improved from 600 to 700 feet, warranting a SPECI for the minimums being met.
KPHL still had problems hours later:
Here is another example of a ground stop, caused by something other than wintry weather:
At La Guardia Airport in New York City, a ground stop was issued at 1650Z on the 11th, due to wind.
LGA has several configurations, when windy conditions affect which runways are in use; which types of aircraft are affected; and how coordination is needed with nearby airports:
The winds were not particularly strong, and not that great of a crosswind:
SPECI KLGA 111334Z 36009G17KT 10SM SCT014 OVC029 11/08 A2982 RMK AO2 RAE10 P0000 $ METAR KLGA 111351Z 36012G21KT 10SM FEW014 OVC027 11/08 A2982 RMK AO2 RAE10 SLP098 P0000 T01060078 $ METAR KLGA 111651Z 32010G17KT 8SM SCT016 OVC029 12/08 A2985 RMK AO2 SLP106 T01170078 $ METAR KLGA 111751Z 34015G22KT 10SM OVC018 12/08 A2983 RMK AO2 SLP102 60000 T01220078 10122 20100 58001 $
Those were the strongest winds during the period. Yet, they were enough to cause the ground stop, and delays.
Midway Airport in Chicago, had a ground stop due to thunderstorms:
The number of delays, was listed:
That began at 0248Z. A thunderstorm was first reported by the CWO at 0139Z:
SPECI KMDW 120139Z 15020G37KT 10SM -TSRA SCT045 SCT075CB BKN100 16/06 A2942 RMK AO2 PK WND 13038/0129 RAB15 TSB38 FRQ LTGICCG VC SW TS VC SW MOV NE P0000 T01610056
Shortly before 0248Z, the VIS had worsened:
SPECI KMDW 120226Z 16025G33KT 1 3/4SM -RA FEW023 BKN028 OVC080 13/08 A2943 RMK AO2 PK WND 16033/0221 TSE17 P0003 T01280083
While the worst conditions were at 0338Z:
SPECI KMDW 120338Z 26021G34KT 1/2SM R31C/4000FT +TSRA SCT021 BKN028CB OVC044 12/08 A2948 RMK AO2 PK WND 17037/0301 WSHFT 0322 RAB31 TSB27 PRESRR OCNL LTGICCG VC W-NW TS VC W-NW MOV E P0023 T01170083
So the ground stop was issued before the worst of the weather arrived at Midway:
Apparently, a ground stop to O’Hare had just lifted when I noticed Midway.
Since the FAA is issuing ground stops for low ceilings (KPHL), winds (KLGA), and thunderstorms (KMDW); why does none of that factor into a
site’s bad weather operations score?
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Post by toofarnorth on Nov 12, 2015 17:58:23 GMT -5
Because the metric would show that they need manned CWOs... "Why" is a question they don't want asked - they want to design a metric that will allow them to do what they want without liability or interference... Never mind their mission statement.
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Post by tornado on Nov 17, 2015 14:01:28 GMT -5
There's another ground stop due to thunderstorms. This time, it's affecting Houston: Both major airports in the metro area are affected: The ground stops were issued, even before the storms reached the airports: That was prudent, as the Houston metro area has been under a tornado watch: Yet, thunderstorms are not counted in a site's bad weather operations score.
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Post by tornado on Dec 23, 2015 10:39:08 GMT -5
Wed 23 Dec 2015: Ground stop: La Guardia METAR KLGA 231251Z 09003KT 1/2SM BR OVC003 12/10 A3019 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1 1/2 SLP223 T01170100 $ SPECI KLGA 231317Z 05006KT 1/4SM R04/1800VP6000FT FG OVC003 11/09 A3019 RMK AO2 TWR VIS 1/4 $ SPECI KLGA 231320Z 05006KT 1/4SM R04/1200V4000FT FG VV002 11/09 A3019 RMK AO2 TWR VIS 1/4 $ METAR KLGA 231351Z 05006KT 1/4SM R04/1400V4000FT FG VV002 11/09 A3020 METAR KLGA 231451Z 06006KT 1/4SM R04/1200V1600FT FG VV002 11/10 A3021 Yet, poor visibility doesn't count towards a site's Bad Weather Operations (BWO) score.
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Post by tornado on Dec 24, 2015 10:08:58 GMT -5
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Post by tornado on Jan 7, 2016 12:14:20 GMT -5
San Francisco, California, Thu 7 Jan 2016:
If 3,900 to 4,700 foot ceilings are causing delays, perhaps the FAA should add back low ceilings into its 'Bad Weather Operations" score.
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Post by boxingkangaroos on Feb 2, 2016 8:25:53 GMT -5
The Weather Channel just said there's a ground stop at Hartsfield due to low Visibility... The FAA told me that visibility isn't bad weather TWR cab also appeared to be in the clouds for quite some time 1/4SM twr vis vs 3/4-1/2 SFC, but they can take obs up there, right? KATL 021302Z 10005KT 1/4SM R09R/1200V1800FT FG BKN002 BKN060 12/12 A3008 RMK AO2 T01220117 KATL 021252Z 08007KT 1/4SM R09R/2200V4000FT FG BKN002 BKN060 12/12 A3007 RMK AO2 SLP182 T01220117 KATL 021152Z 08006KT 1/4SM R09R/3500VP6000FT FG VV002 12/11 A3006 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/2 SLP176 60000 70003 T01220111 10139 20122 53011 KATL 021052Z 07004KT 1/4SM R09R/2200V5500FT FG BKN003 BKN019 BKN060 13/12 A3004 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/2 SLP170 T01330122 KATL 021047Z 00000KT 1/4SM R09R/1800V3500FT FG BKN003 BKN019 BKN060 13/12 A3004 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 1/2 KATL 020952Z 09003KT 1/4SM R09R/1400FT FG BKN002 BKN019 13/12 A3002 RMK AO2 RAB0857E06 SLP163 P0000 T01280117 KATL 020945Z 07003KT 1/4SM R09R/1400V1800FT FG BKN002 BKN019 13/12 A3002 RMK AO2 RAB0857E06 P0000 T01280117 KATL 020933Z 07004KT 1/4SM R09R/1800V2800FT FG BKN002 OVC019 13/12 A3002 RMK AO2 RAB0857E06 P0000 T01280117 KATL 020852Z 00000KT 1/4SM R09R/1200V1400FT BR BKN002 OVC019 14/13 A3002 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 3/4 SLP163 60000 T01390128 53006 KATL 020831Z 00000KT 1/4SM R09R/1200V1600FT BR BKN002 OVC019 13/13 A3002 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 3/4 T01330128 KATL 020752Z 00000KT 1/4SM R09R/2800V5500FT BR BKN002 BKN019 BKN060 13/13 A3001 RMK AO2 SFC VIS 3/4 RAB08E20 SLP160 P0000 T01330128
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Post by tornado on Mar 25, 2016 12:02:25 GMT -5
All Horizon aircraft are grounded, due to computer issues: Wind and thunderstorms are causing issues as well.
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