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Post by rich on Aug 3, 2016 13:33:01 GMT -5
Sent earlier today by HQ's, this came with the 3.10 memo attached which calls for manual reporting of TS when ALDARS is unrepresentative:
All, Attached is a copy of the ALDARS memo that was issued along with the training for the ASOS 3.10 software upgrade. We’re being notified that some sites are turning the ALDARS off, this is a violation of the FAA Policy that was issued, so ensure your facilities are in compliance. Ken Ken Cunningham Contract Operations Group (AJT-21) Western Service Area POC Federal Aviation Administration 600 Independence Ave. SW
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Post by rich on Aug 3, 2016 14:24:45 GMT -5
A follow up to the above email:
All, According NWS and FAA Tech Ops, ALDARS is accurate. If an observer/SWO will document a specific incident, time and date and observation that they claim ALDARS was inaccurate, we can forward that information to Tech Ops to investigate the event. Otherwise , these are general complaints which we cannot verify. I don’t know what it means by ALDARS reporting TB? But again, if an error is noticed, it should be reported so it can be investigated by FAA. The 7900.5D is being revised to address the VCTS contraction and ALDARS. For people who have asked, we have told them that VCTS is now permitted at ALDARS capable stations. Ken Ken Cunningham Contract Operations Group (AJT-21) Western Service Area POC
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Post by tornado on Aug 3, 2016 15:02:59 GMT -5
According NWS and FAA Tech Ops, ALDARS is accurate. If an observer/SWO will document a specific incident, time and date and observation that they claim ALDARS was inaccurate, we can forward that information to Tech Ops to investigate the event. Otherwise , these are general complaints which we cannot verify. ALDARS isn't always accurate! Some statistics from the lightning project: 2014 cases posted 4 Total cases posted 917 2015 cases posted 913
SITES WITH MOST CASES (minimum 10) RANK SITE CALL SIGN # OF CASES/ SERIOUS CASES 1 Gulfport MS KGPT 27 6 2 Cecil Field FL KVQQ 23 10 3 New Orleans-Lakefront LA KNEW 22 9 4 Baton Rouge LA KBTR 21 8 5 Abilene TX KABI 21 3 6 Hawkins Field MS KHKS 20 4 7 Lawton OK KLAW 19 8 8 Hollywood FL KHWO 17 1 9 Laredo TX KLRD 16 5 10 Montgomery AL KMGM 16 3 11 Stillwater OK KSWO 14 4 12 Jefferson City MO KJEF 14 4 13 Athens GA KAHN 14 3 13 Ogden UT KOGD 14 3 15 Panama City FL KECP 14 2 16 Ft. Pierce FL KFPR 14 0 17 Fargo ND KFAR 13 4 18 Smyrna TN KMQY 13 3 19 David Wayne Hooks TX KDWH 12 3 20 Norfolk Intl VA KORF 12 3 21 Allegheny County PA KAGC 11 3 22 Ft. Lauderdale Executive FL KFXE 11 0 23 Ypsilanti MI KYIP 10 4 24 Brookley Field AL KBFM 10 0
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Post by hlsto2 on Aug 3, 2016 15:19:51 GMT -5
according to techs...ALDARS is accurate? and they know this because?? I found an example I had previously posted about ALDARS. it was reporting TS at an AWOS site with CLR. problem was...nearest storms were 150 miles away.
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Post by kukblue1 on Aug 3, 2016 15:21:51 GMT -5
Yep I was just going to post something saying that a new rewrite was coming down the pipeline. I'm sorry I guess leave it on but just turn off remarks or we just supposed to let it do it's thing now. No FRQ no type of LTG required?
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Post by rich on Aug 3, 2016 15:33:38 GMT -5
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Post by coldairfunnel on Aug 3, 2016 16:00:16 GMT -5
If the NWS or FAA calls just tell them you are not authorized to speak with them and to call your contractor. If they ask for the contractor's number, tell them you are not authorized to give out that information....
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Post by kukblue1 on Aug 3, 2016 16:04:26 GMT -5
If the NWS or FAA calls just tell them you are not authorized to speak with them and to call your contractor. If they ask for the contractor's number, tell them you are not authorized to give out that information.... They did call the contractor today. I hope the contractors will take a stand and say no. We shall see.
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Post by skobie on Aug 3, 2016 22:25:26 GMT -5
Kukblue, I may have misunderstood part of what you were saying. Are you saying that FAA DC called your station or NWS DC called your station? NWS DC has no say in anything as far as weather observing goes if it was them (including your local NWS for that matter. If it was FAA DC, see my post above.
skobie
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Post by hlsto2 on Aug 4, 2016 2:19:49 GMT -5
another example of why ALDARS should NOT be turned on while a site is manned. it kicks out a FOUR min TS...in remarks only...which the eagle eyed obstroller misses. was there a TS or not? then...the lawrs signs off for the night...and turns ALDARS off...ref the TSNO at 0053Z. do lawrs sites have a different set of rules regarding ALDARS? I repeat what I said previously...if you have ALDARS turned on...you will eventually get burned.
KMCN 040053Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 28/26 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP133 T02830256 TSNO KMCN 032353Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 31/24 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP130 60029 T03060239 10317 20256 55008 KMCN 032253Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 31/23 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP129 T03110233 KMCN 032153Z 25004KT 10SM CLR 31/23 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP131 T03110228 KMCN 032053Z 21004KT 10SM SCT110 29/24 A2995 RMK AO2 SLP138 60029 T02940239 56017 KMCN 031953Z 30005KT 10SM FEW100 29/24 A2997 RMK AO2 RAE00B22E31 SLP142 P0000 T02940239 KMCN 031853Z 21009KT 7SM -RA SCT022 BKN042 OVC120 26/23 A2999 RMK AO2 RAB1754E03B38 TSB42E46 SLP149 P0029 T02560233 KMCN 031832Z 25009KT 10SM SCT041 SCT050 BKN080 29/23 A3001 RMK AO2 RAB1754E03 P0000 T02890233
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Post by coldlover on Aug 4, 2016 6:36:18 GMT -5
another example of why ALDARS should NOT be turned on while a site is manned. it kicks out a FOUR min TS...in remarks only...which the eagle eyed obstroller misses. was there a TS or not? then...the lawrs signs off for the night...and turns ALDARS off...ref the TSNO at 0053Z. do lawrs sites have a different set of rules regarding ALDARS? I repeat what I said previously...if you have ALDARS turned on...you will eventually get burned. KMCN 040053Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 28/26 A2994 RMK AO2 SLP133 T02830256 TSNOKMCN 032353Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 31/24 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP130 60029 T03060239 10317 20256 55008 KMCN 032253Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 31/23 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP129 T03110233 KMCN 032153Z 25004KT 10SM CLR 31/23 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP131 T03110228 KMCN 032053Z 21004KT 10SM SCT110 29/24 A2995 RMK AO2 SLP138 60029 T02940239 56017 KMCN 031953Z 30005KT 10SM FEW100 29/24 A2997 RMK AO2 RAE00B22E31 SLP142 P0000 T02940239 KMCN 031853Z 21009KT 7SM -RA SCT022 BKN042 OVC120 26/23 A2999 RMK AO2 RAB1754E03B38 TSB42E46 SLP149 P0029 T02560233 KMCN 031832Z 25009KT 10SM SCT041 SCT050 BKN080 29/23 A3001 RMK AO2 RAB1754E03 P0000 T02890233 ASOS 3.10 Software Upgrade.pdf (373.64 KB) From the bottom of paragraph two- "Controllers and observers would also enable ALDARS when the facility closes to ensure that thunderstorm would be reported to airport users" Another instance where LAWRS does the opposite of what is supposedly required of them.
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Post by weatheri on Aug 4, 2016 7:26:54 GMT -5
1. Does anyone have the tech ops contact information?
2. I always thought that FMH-1 was the primary directive: 1.3 Relation to Other Handbooks and Manuals Individual agencies shall issue their own manuals defining their observing procedures which implement the FMH-1 standards. Such manuals shall complement, not change, the standards contained in FMH-1. Most observing standards described in this Handbook also apply to synoptic surface observations which have coding and reporting procedures described in Federal Meteorological Handbook No.2, Surface Synoptic Codes (FMH-2). FMH-1 is consistent with agreements and publications of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), specifically WMO No. 306 - Manual on Codes, and ICAO Annex 3 - Meteorological Services for International Air Navigation, and civil as well as military weather services.
That seems clear to me that FAA 7900.5C or D cannot change the standards.
3. So, what to do? Do I incorrectly report VCTS or TS as instructed? I'm going with TS for lightning within 10SM.
4. As for the remarks, currently I SEQN off the ASOS auto remarks and enter the correctly formatted lightning remarks. However, I am almost ready to let the ALDARS puke out crap remarks and then the correctly formatted lightning remarks. That way I comply to the FAA requirement to have ALDARS on 24/7 and everyone will notice the ALDARS reporting lightning where no cell exists because the cell moved.
I am just getting tired of this endless fight with non weather trained FAA personnel in power. This is beyond stupid to me.
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Post by alstein on Aug 4, 2016 12:40:14 GMT -5
This needs to be saved as ammo for 17/18 fights- this is flat-out telling us to put out false data, especially if we've given the bad data records to the FAA.
I'm also sure several members of Congress and the press would love to hear about the FAA deliberately ignoring safety flaws.
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Post by wxmatrix on Aug 4, 2016 13:40:16 GMT -5
It is clear that most CWOs do not understand the governing manuals issued by FAA, and they do not understand how ALDARS works and how ASOS reports lightning data received from ALDARS.
First off, an ASOS site staffed with a CWO or a LAWRS observer is NOT a manual station. It is an AUGMENTED station. See the definitions in 7900.5C paragraphs 2.2.b. and 2.2.c.
With the introduction of ALDARS data to the ASOS, lightning information is now reported automatically when applicable. This is in accordance with 7900.5C paragraph 14.29.b. When ALDARS detects cloud-to-ground lightning within 5 nautical miles of the Airport Reference Point (ARP), this lightning is reported in the body of the report as TS with NO REMARK. This satisfies all regulatory requirements for reporting lightning within 5 nautical miles of the ARP. The CWO or LAWRS observer may, but are not required to, augment a remark describing the frequency and type(s) lightning observed within 5 nautical miles of the airport. The CWO should augment a remark describing the location and movement (if known) of the thunderstorm. When the ALDARS detects cloud-to-ground lightning between 5-10 nautical miles of the ARP, this lightning is reported in the body of the report as VCTS with NO REMARK. This satisfies all regulatory requirements for reporting lightning between 5-10 nautical miles of the ARP. The CWO or LAWRS observer may, but are not required to, augment a remark describing the frequency and type(s) of lightning observed between 5-10 nautical miles of the airport. The CWO should augment a remark describing the location and movement (if known) of the VCTS. When the ALDARS detects cloud-to-ground lightning between 10-30 nautical miles of the ARP, this lightning is reported in the remarks of the report as "LTG DSNT xx", where xx is the direction from the ARP. This satisfies all regulatory requirements for reporting lightning between 10-30 nautical miles of the airport. The CWO or LAWRS observer shall not turn off automated lightning remarks to replaced them with a manual lightning remark.
It should be noted that TS and VCTS will not appear in the same observation. If ALDARS detects cloud-to-ground lightning between 0-5 nautical miles of the ARP, and 5-10 nautical miles of the ARP, the ASOS will report TS in the body of the observation.
An example of an augmented observation for an automated system with SPECI capability with augmentation and ALDARS (that is, a CWO site) is provided in 7900.5C Table 5-2.
As noted above, VCTS is allowed at CWO sites with ALDARS because these sites are AUGMENTED stations, NOT manual stations, as defined in 7900.5C.
Begin/end times are NOT provided for VCTS. Begin/end times are only provided for weather phenomena occurring "at the station." VC means "in the vicinity" of the station.
The National Lightning Detection Network (NLDN), from which the ALDARS gets lightning data, has a documented detection accuracy of cloud-to-ground lightning strikes within 200 meters in the contiguous United States, flash detection efficiency greater than 95%, and thunderstorm detection efficiency in excess of 99%, according to NWS, Vaisala, and 3rd party validation studies conducted by the University of Arizona and the University of Florida. The NWS has been using the very same lightning data provided by the NLDN that the ALDARS uses for over 20 years. The ALDARS is simply using the same lightning data for METAR/SPECI observations.
There is nothing in the 7900.5C, or the memorandum regarding the ALDARS policy, that changes the standards prescribed in the FMH-1.
Per the CWO Statement of Work (SOW), Part I, Section C, paragraph 3.1, "In addition to what is listed in Section 2.0 of this SOW, the contractor must take, document, and disseminate accurate and timely hourly METAR and SPECI weather reports at each location in accordance with FAA Order 7900.5, Surface Weather Observing-METAR, and other associated instructions as provided by the Government." The memorandum directing CWOs/LAWRSs to enable ALDARS service 24 hours per day is an example of "other associated instructions." Vendors who do not follow this policy are in violation of the terms of the contract, and are subject to penalties which may include decertification of observers, fines, or termination of contract.
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Post by rich on Aug 4, 2016 14:26:18 GMT -5
10.29.Beginning and/or Ending of a Thunderstorm. A thunderstorm is considered to begin at the station when thunder is heard, overhead lightning is observed and the local noise level is such as might prevent hearing thunder, or lightning is detected by an automated sensor within 10 miles of the airport. A thunderstorm is considered to have ended 15 minutes after the last occurrence of any of the above criteria. When the time of beginning or ending of a thunderstorm is reported in the remarks section of a SPECI observation, it need not be reported again until the next transmitted METAR observation if not previously reported in a METAR observation. If previously reported in a METAR observation, the time need not be reported again.
Doesn't ALDARS only begin a TS when LTG is detected within 5 miles of the airport?
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