|
Post by tornado on Oct 19, 2017 8:05:17 GMT -5
Did anything replace the Good Friday holiday? Higher wages? Extra Pers day? Etc. At our site, the gain was: 1) almost a $ an hour increase in base pay 2) relief personnel now earn personal hours As far as I can tell, that's it.
|
|
|
Post by rich on Oct 19, 2017 8:22:58 GMT -5
Did anything replace the Good Friday holiday? Higher wages? Extra Pers day? Etc. At our site, the gain was: 1) almost a $ an hour increase in base pay 2) relief personnel now earn personal hours As far as I can tell, that's it. A dollar an hour raise should more then make up for the lost holiday.
|
|
|
Post by TCU 2U2 on Oct 19, 2017 10:06:00 GMT -5
Did anything replace the Good Friday holiday? Higher wages? Extra Pers day? Etc. not sure yet how or what replaced good Friday. shop steward has yet to get that clarification from patco - but he is searching for an answer. has any shop stewards on this board had the opportunity to negotiate during this year (or past years) with patco since Mr Tuso left? wages are higher than DOL, but that has been for many many years (back when Mr Tuso ran the show). lastly - not to be political, but going back to 10 holidays does not seem to be from any beltway influence, Obama or whomever, in fact the Good Friday holiday is not even on the Federal books. While on the subject of holidays, check out the DOL wage determination holidays for: State: Michigan Area: Michigan County of Saginaw HOLIDAYS: A minimum of thirteen paid holidays per year: New Year's Day Martin Luther King Jr's Birthday Washington's Birthday Good Friday Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Columbus Day Veterans' Day Thanksgiving Day Day after Thanksgiving Christmas Eve Christmas Day(A contractor may substitute for any of the named holidays another day off with pay in accordance with a plan communicated to the employees involved.) (See 29 CFR 4.174)
|
|
|
Post by rich on Oct 19, 2017 10:13:53 GMT -5
not sure yet how or what replaced good Friday. shop steward has yet to get that clarification from patco - but he is searching for an answer. has any shop stewards on this board had the opportunity to negotiate during this year (or past years) with patco since Mr Tuso left? wages are higher than DOL, but that has been for many many years (back when Mr Tuso ran the show). lastly - not to be political, but going back to 10 holidays does not seem to be from any beltway influence, Obama or whomever, in fact the Good Friday holiday is not even on the Federal books. While on the subject of holidays, check out the DOL wage determination holidays for: State: Michigan Area: Michigan County of Saginaw HOLIDAYS: A minimum of thirteen paid holidays per year: New Year's Day Martin Luther King Jr's Birthday Washington's Birthday Good Friday Memorial Day Independence Day Labor Day Columbus Day Veterans' Day Thanksgiving Day Day after Thanksgiving Christmas Eve Christmas Day(A contractor may substitute for any of the named holidays another day off with pay in accordance with a plan communicated to the employees involved.) (See 29 CFR 4.174) Obama must have missed that one. LOL
|
|
|
Post by tornado on Oct 19, 2017 10:21:16 GMT -5
A dollar an hour raise should more then make up for the lost holiday. Perhaps. But the 2 part-timers here that lost Sunday pay aren't too happy, considering they work nearly every Sunday.
|
|
|
Post by skobie on Oct 19, 2017 12:25:01 GMT -5
And the fact that it was something you were not willing to give up, I'm sure.
This is Negotiations 101: 1.) You make a list of "demands" and 2.) *You make a list of things you're willing to give up (*though we as lay-people are not in the business of making money, so justification can be substituted for the things you're willing to give up, ie, we would like a 3% raise because the Federal C.O.L.A. says year to year inflation was 3% or we would like 13 holidays b/c even our Federal Wage Determination gives 13 holidays, etc..).
Note: you do not have to give up income to get income, nor do you have to give up income to get non-monetary items like Personal Days (robbing Peter to pay Paul = bad negotiations). However, it does help if the person(s) doing the negotiating are accessible and communicating.
Just my 2 cents, skobie
|
|
|
Post by rich on Oct 19, 2017 13:08:48 GMT -5
Good points Skobie. How is a personal day a non monetary item though?
|
|
|
Post by skobie on Oct 19, 2017 13:35:54 GMT -5
Generally, only wages and H&W are considered monetary items and time off, with or without pay (along with a plethora of other items), are non-monetary in my experience.
skobie
|
|
|
Post by rich on Oct 19, 2017 14:08:13 GMT -5
I guess it's just semantics since every time I've cashed in unused personal hours I was paid monetarily for those hours.
One of those mysteries like why are some part timers upset they aren't paid 25% more on Sunday for doing the same exact job full timers and part timers do the other 6 days.
|
|
|
Post by northwx on Oct 19, 2017 16:56:45 GMT -5
"A lot more misinformation then facts here as usual." said Rich. Rich, you are welcome to your opinion, but your personal attacks and hate are divisive and not at all helpful. Me help you with something? - NOT going to happen. My information above came direct from my contractor - I'm waiting on a return call from the Neimeisers also. What they are doing right now I don't know. Rich when you get ALL the info together including a plan on how to move forward - YOU do the work instead of whining and crying about how PATCO sucks, then I'll consider what you have to offer. WE are the union - get off your butt. In the meantime, PATCO is the best any of us have been able to achieve and have been trying to get us the best deals they can. I've been in 3 different unions as a weather observer - I know the process of changing unions, I know what and how union negotiations work, years ago I was in business for myself. I have 20 years experience as senior weather observer. No one likes "losing" something they already have and think they're entitled to - my sympathies, but I agree with those above who have asked what they're getting in return. The FAA has to "approve" whatever the new CBAs have, and they like to see that the contractors are "negotiating" - getting concessions - then they can go to congress when they ask for more money for our program and claim that the contractors negotiated in good faith. Good Friday has been a federal holiday for a long time - who removed it? When?
|
|
|
Post by swifterz on Oct 19, 2017 16:56:48 GMT -5
Many, if not all, of the contractors have master agreements with the union. If Sunday pay for all is not specifically written out in your CBA, the contractor has the right to deny Sunday diff to part time employees - the FAA contracts only demand Sunday diff for full-time employees. I don't know what the FAA says about holidays now, but if that has changed (blame that loss of Good Friday on the atheists in the Obama admin... we only used to get 10 holidays) and your CBA doesn't spell it out, you're stuck - contractors have a strong incentive to nickel and dime us to get a competitive advantage over the other contractors. Did you folks reach out to PATCO with what you wanted before negotiations started? I do know that Sam has been in and out of the hospital since last spring... If your CBA expires in a year, you should be starting the process - the FAA needs more than 6 months to approve your new CBA, as has been historically the last 20 years. Master agreements would be the reason that a contractor would not have to negotiate with the union for your specific site. I agree from what has been written above that something doesn't smell right... It's just as wrong for PATCO to not attempt to involve the sites they represent in negotiations on the CBA that will govern them for the upcoming year. Why is it every damn time you white knight for PATCO you blame us the union members for not getting in touch with PATCO, and wtf does being in the hospital have anything to do with this? If Sam can't fulfill his duties due to sickness then he needs to take some FMLA and get a replacement in that can do the job. Hell most of us don't even know when PATCO starts to negotiating the CBA because the don't freaking communicate with us. Up until a few weeks we hadn't received a new CBA since 2014!!! Luckily Sam did actually email me a new one. We are talking about a freaking union that can't even send out 4 quarterly updates like they are supposed... when was the last time we received one of those? Enough is enough, we constantly are beating a dead horse over and over. PATCO is shitty, doesn't care about CWO's(as evidenced in the conference call with AFSCME and them not even mentioning CWO's until reps from USCWOA mentioned us. As stated here on the NLRB site, PATCO has a duty to fairly represent us and didn't not live up to the requirement with the CBA.
|
|
|
Post by swifterz on Oct 19, 2017 17:06:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by rich on Oct 19, 2017 17:10:02 GMT -5
"A lot more misinformation then facts here as usual." Said Rich. Rich, you are welcome to your opinion, but your personal attacks and hate are divisive and not at all helpful. My information above came direct from my contractor - I'm waiting on a return call from the Neimeisers also. What they are doing right now I don't know. Rich when you get ALL the info together including a plan on how to move forward - YOU do the work instead of whining and crying about how PATCO sucks, then I'll consider what you have to offer. WE are the union - get off your butt. In the meantime, PATCO is the best any of us have been able to achieve and have been trying to get us the best deals they can. I've been in 3 different unions as a weather observer - I know the process of changing unions, I know what and how union negotiations work. No one likes "losing" something they already have and think they're entitled to - my sympathies, but I agree with those above who have asked what they're getting in return. The FAA has to "approve" whatever the new CBAs have, and they like to see that the contractors are "negotiating" - getting concessions. Good Friday has been a federal holiday for a long time - who removed it? When? Not a personal attack at all TFN and no "hate" involved either, sorry if you took it personally but most of what you post here is just not correct. If you want to get personal I think you're a gullible simpleton who believes whatever BS Sam and Mark feed you. And no "Obama's atheists" were not able to remove the Good Friday holiday from one CBA 9 months after he left office. Please tell us you're not as stupid as you appear to be.
|
|
|
Post by northwx on Oct 19, 2017 17:20:36 GMT -5
And Rich, what you've posted is not a personal attack when you call me "stupid"? Get over it. You are an arrogant fool. My info is absolutely correct as learned from my sources and experience - I don't prevaricate, period. And no, I'm no "simpleton". I've been a senior weather observer for 20 years. Do you really think someone is going to talk to you when that is the kind of reaction you're known for? GROW UP. No wonder PATCO won't talk to you. Are they on vacation? - I have no idea, but would you respond to someone nagging you for a phone call when you're on vacation? At least one of the contractors did that when they had our contract - we were in the dark until they returned to the US, sometimes gone for more than a month. This job, including helping you folks, should not be stressful. I really don't appreciate being disrespected by people I'm trying to help.
Last post folks - I have no patience with entitlement mentality whiners who won't lift a finger to help themselves. You're on your own.
|
|
|
Post by rich on Oct 19, 2017 17:27:57 GMT -5
And Rich, what you've posted is not a personal attack when you call me "stupid"? Get over it. You are an arrogant fool. My info is absolutely correct as learned from my sources and experience - I don't BS, period. Do you really think someone is going to talk to you when that is the kind of reaction you're known for? GROW UP. Last post folks - I have no patience with entitlement mentality whiners who won't lift a finger to help themselves. You're on your own. LOL.....don't forget to slam the door on the way out.
|
|