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Post by hlsto2 on Mar 21, 2022 13:05:02 GMT -5
So you have LTG DSNT S AND NW. Is it an error to report the DSNT CB as NW AND S? EX: LTG DSNT S AND NW CB DSNT NW AND S. Shouldn't it be LTG DSNT S AND NW CB DSNT S AND NW? I always understood you started with N then move around the circle but I cant find anything stating it in the newest manual. Kinda like how the 90 degree rule isn't there anymore. I wouldn't ding someone for reporting CB DSNT NW AND S. judgement call here. after all you are reporting the northern most CB first. I don't understand why so many CWO's don't report the movement of distant CB. the book says to report movement if known...not just report CB movement if within 10 miles. it looks foolish to see a station report CB SE MOV N CB DSNT W in remarks. |
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Post by weatherwatcher on Mar 21, 2022 13:10:09 GMT -5
There was only a DSNT CB. Nothing on station or the observer would have reported the movement.
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Post by hlsto2 on Mar 21, 2022 13:36:33 GMT -5
There was only a DSNT CB. Nothing on station or the observer would have reported the movement. you don't have visual aids like radar loops to determine movement? then...why not CB DSNT W MOV E for example? |
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Post by alstein on Mar 21, 2022 16:50:45 GMT -5
So you have LTG DSNT S AND NW. Is it an error to report the DSNT CB as NW AND S? EX: LTG DSNT S AND NW CB DSNT NW AND S. Shouldn't it be LTG DSNT S AND NW CB DSNT S AND NW? I always understood you started with N then move around the circle but I cant find anything stating it in the newest manual. Kinda like how the 90 degree rule isn't there anymore. I wouldn't ding someone for reporting CB DSNT NW AND S. judgement call here. after all you are reporting the northern most CB first. I don't understand why so many CWO's don't report the movement of distant CB. the book says to report movement if known...not just report CB movement if within 10 miles. it looks foolish to see a station report CB SE MOV N CB DSNT W in remarks. Contractors tell us not to. |
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Post by northwx on Mar 22, 2022 12:50:25 GMT -5
Despite the FAA and NWS wanting an entirely uniform product from us, some stations have idiosyncrasies (with past approval of agencies). It seems best to me to provide the maximum amount of information possible within the regs unless specifically told not to. We still report clockwise starting at North and report movement of DSNT CBs - at my station MOV isn't difficult to determine. We also will repeat the proximity qualifier after "and" - the qualifier carries through with the dash. IE: CB DSNT S AND DSNT NW; CB DSNT S-W; CB DSNT S AND VC NW; CB DSNT S-VC W; CB DSNT S AND W (W in this last case being within 5SM). This is more precise. Absence of proximity qualifier for any isolated sector indicates within 5SM. As for dinging employees - gently... This is a teaching opportunity, not a capital crime. Why are the regs less specific than they used to be? My inner cynic says there is a nefarious reason, but I really don't know. The absolute necessity is that our obs communicate accurately.
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Post by weatherwatcher on Mar 22, 2022 13:02:12 GMT -5
Great reply.
I totally agree.
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Post by kukblue1 on Mar 23, 2022 11:04:50 GMT -5
Speaking of CB's what is everyone thoughts on reporting a CB OHD if no LTG is being picked up by ALDAS DSNT, cause I know it won't show within 10 miles, and no LTG or Thunder heard. Just Heavy rain dropping vis to less than 5 miles and OVC skies.
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Post by vorticity on Mar 23, 2022 12:37:46 GMT -5
So you have LTG DSNT S AND NW. Is it an error to report the DSNT CB as NW AND S? EX: LTG DSNT S AND NW CB DSNT NW AND S. Shouldn't it be LTG DSNT S AND NW CB DSNT S AND NW? I always understood you started with N then move around the circle but I cant find anything stating it in the newest manual. Kinda like how the 90 degree rule isn't there anymore. From FAA Order JO 7900.5E, chapter 13, paragraph 13.17.b. (5): "Direction. Directions must use the eight points of the compass coded in a clockwise order beginning with north." |
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Post by northwx on Mar 23, 2022 14:51:30 GMT -5
Speaking of CB's what is everyone thoughts on reporting a CB OHD if no LTG is being picked up by ALDAS DSNT, cause I know it won't show within 10 miles, and no LTG or Thunder heard. Just Heavy rain dropping vis to less than 5 miles and OVC skies. CBs are recognizable from underneath without LTG - you should have a cloud atlas and other helps to identify. Conditions present will tell you that there is a possibility of CB forming. If a CB is present, report it - this is an operationally significant remark. Heavy rain by itself might not indicate CB. Embedded CBs - CB surrounded by OVC layer at close to the base of a possible CB - are difficult, but still possible to identify. Use convective cloud base calculation, current conditions, and knowledge of forecasts to determine presence of CB without radar or ALDARS. If you're just stuck with your own judgment based on everything you know and can see - call it - you're most likely correct. Better to err on the side of caution than to not call a CB that is there. |
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Post by weatherwatcher on Mar 24, 2022 7:48:28 GMT -5
So does anyone know if the 90 degree rule is still in effect?
I cant find it anywhere in the "new" manual and ALDARS totally ignores it.
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Post by weatherwatcher on Mar 24, 2022 7:54:22 GMT -5
So you have LTG DSNT S AND NW. Is it an error to report the DSNT CB as NW AND S? EX: LTG DSNT S AND NW CB DSNT NW AND S. Shouldn't it be LTG DSNT S AND NW CB DSNT S AND NW? I always understood you started with N then move around the circle but I cant find anything stating it in the newest manual. Kinda like how the 90 degree rule isn't there anymore. From FAA Order JO 7900.5E, chapter 13, paragraph 13.17.b. (5): "Direction. Directions must use the eight points of the compass coded in a clockwise order beginning with north." I knew it to be true but I couldn't find it. Thanks |
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