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BINOVC
Jul 16, 2014 7:21:14 GMT -5
Post by snowspinner on Jul 16, 2014 7:21:14 GMT -5
Which is correct?
Sky: BKN040
Rmk: BINOVC
Sky: OVC040
Rmk: BINOVC
The debate here is anything less than 8/8ths is considered broken...if you have holes within the layer it will be less than 8/8ths in coverage.
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BINOVC
Jul 16, 2014 8:21:59 GMT -5
Post by snowwx on Jul 16, 2014 8:21:59 GMT -5
neither one...cant use BINOVC old contraction...use BKN 040 BKN V OVC
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BINOVC
Jul 16, 2014 8:32:51 GMT -5
Post by weatheri on Jul 16, 2014 8:32:51 GMT -5
By definition in JO 7900.5C:
11.17.Sky Cover Classifications
f. OVERCAST (OVC) represents sky cover of 8/8ths at and below the level of a layer aloft.
3.9. Rounding Off Numbers. Except where otherwise designated in this order, when computations
require that a number be rounded, if the fractional part of a positive number to be dropped is equal to or
greater than one-half, the preceding digit must be increased by one.
So if you have 7.51 sky coverage = 8/8 and would be reported as OVC.
There is no BINOVC anymore.
That of course, is my take on it.
Regards.
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Post by hlsto2 on Jul 16, 2014 11:13:38 GMT -5
in the old synoptic code...7/8s sky coverage...coded 7...could be either broken... or overcast with breaks.. BINOVC. It is rediculous to have just a few small openings in the sky cover and have to call it BKN. I see a number of CWO's that do use BINOVC and I don't see a problem with it.
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Post by toofarnorth on Jul 16, 2014 15:07:41 GMT -5
We've used BINOVC for the last 20 years... Rounding up at 7.5 octas requires OVC, though 1/16 of sky is open. When we use BINOVC, we locate it with direction & proximity. The idea is for the small break to be reportable it should be usable for a pilot above the deck to find their way down through it. For example: sky FEW007 BKN011 OVC018 rmk BINOVC VC N. I've had the privilege of talking a panicky pilot down through BINOVC when they got themselves stuck above a cloud deck and running low on fuel... Reporting BINOVC in rmks documents what we are seeing, and hopefully never having to report to a pilot in need.
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BINOVC
Jul 16, 2014 15:19:16 GMT -5
Post by toofarnorth on Jul 16, 2014 15:19:16 GMT -5
Variable sky condition: 7900.5c 11.23 says sky varies between reportable conditions during the period of observation, not that there are holes in an OVC for the entire obs period, but not so many holes as to call it BKN. No one, with or without authority to do so, has told us not to report BINOVC.
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BINOVC
Jul 16, 2014 15:30:20 GMT -5
Post by fu on Jul 16, 2014 15:30:20 GMT -5
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BINOVC
Jul 16, 2014 17:28:18 GMT -5
Post by fu on Jul 16, 2014 17:28:18 GMT -5
1.  of the 7900 gives observers a lot of leeway on what they can report. |
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BINOVC
Jul 17, 2014 5:58:29 GMT -5
Post by snowwx on Jul 17, 2014 5:58:29 GMT -5
if we use BINOVC we get dinged for an error...we were told this from contractors over the years and from sr. wx observers...only use few v sct sct v bkn bkn v ovc....i see some people were using ovc v bkn and going "backwards" on it and we would still get popped for an error...
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BINOVC
Jul 17, 2014 11:18:47 GMT -5
Post by tornado on Jul 17, 2014 11:18:47 GMT -5
1. of the 7900 gives observers a lot of leeway on what they can report. So does this. |
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BINOVC
Sept 16, 2022 17:38:30 GMT -5
Post by wx12345 on Sept 16, 2022 17:38:30 GMT -5
Which is correct? Sky: BKN040 Rmk: BINOVC Sky: OVC040 Rmk: BINOVC The debate here is anything less than 8/8ths is considered broken...if you have holes within the layer it will be less than 8/8ths in coverage. |
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BINOVC
Sept 16, 2022 17:46:06 GMT -5
Post by wx12345 on Sept 16, 2022 17:46:06 GMT -5
Why isn't BINOVC allowed to be coded in the remark's column? When a hint of Broken Ceiling peaks in and out of an Overcast Ceiling 20 times in an hour, pilots should be aware. At least that is what a pilot told me to input in my early training as an Observer. I'm curious who actually changes policy, a pilot or a non-pilot.
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BINOVC
Sept 19, 2022 12:09:27 GMT -5
Post by TCU 2U2 on Sept 19, 2022 12:09:27 GMT -5
Why isn't BINOVC allowed to be coded in the remark's column? When a hint of Broken Ceiling peaks in and out of an Overcast Ceiling 20 times in an hour, pilots should be aware. At least that is what a pilot told me to input in my early training as an Observer. I'm curious who actually changes policy, a pilot or a non-pilot. JO 7900.5E - Page 69. Table 10-1: Reporting Contractions for Sky Cover Footnote 3: BKN includes sky cover from 5/8 up to, but not including, 8/8. |
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BINOVC
Sept 19, 2022 17:40:55 GMT -5
Post by northwx on Sept 19, 2022 17:40:55 GMT -5
BINOVC may be used when rounding gives you 8/8 OVC layer and breaks less than 1/2 octa occur AND ARE OPERATIONALLY SIGNIFICANT. Does the FAA restrict the use of this remark? Not at my station, though it is infrequently used. Regarding the notion that the layer is merely broken if it is anything less than 8/8 and greater than or equal to 5/8 octa falls into the rounding trap. Round up at .5 ... 7900.5E 3.9, p.15; 10.4.n.(5) How do we know rounding applies to sky condition? The definition of a FEW starts with more than zero - a flyspeck of cloud is a layer and must be reported as a FEW, though it does not represent a full or even one half octa 10.4.n(2).
Pilots do not set policy for reporting, though respect them and their opinion - policy (and regulation) are set by the FAA. The official in charge of this has been Joe Calamita, though I don't know if he still is in that position. It seems each edition of 7900.5 gets more restrictive in what we can report, and the catch-all "whatever is considered operationally significant in the judgment of the observer" has disappeared from our regs.
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BINOVC
Sept 22, 2022 19:30:49 GMT -5
Post by hlsto2 on Sept 22, 2022 19:30:49 GMT -5
7900 is a mess. it also says that a TS within 5SM of the stn is considered OHD. "techically" TS SE should be reported at OHD. but I see very few stations reporting what the book says. observers are better than the book and should be granted leeway. to me...a TS 3-5 SE of the ap is NOT OHD.
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of the 7900 gives observers a lot of leeway on what they can report. 
