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Post by coldlover on Nov 18, 2015 2:51:58 GMT -5
another VCTS with no LTG-- but this time LTG was reported 15 min beforehand, but NOT with the VCTS.
Spencer,IA
KSPW 180735Z AUTO 36009KT 4SM VCTS RA BR OVC004 10/09 A2923 RMK AO2 P0014 T01000089 KSPW 180720Z AUTO 03011KT 3SM +RA BR OVC004 10/09 A2925 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N-E P0009 T01000089
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Post by coldlover on Nov 18, 2015 3:39:35 GMT -5
One of the 57. Auto in the early morning hours. ALDARS reports TS with no LTG. How in the hell is this possible.?? The last report of LTG from ALDARS was around 45 minutes earlier at 0723.
KJAN 180809Z AUTO 16003KT 3SM +TSRA BR FEW007 BKN045 OVC070 13/13 A2979 RMK AO2 TSB09 P0007 T01330128 KJAN 180801Z AUTO 22004KT 4SM +RA BR SCT007 OVC041 14/12 A2979 RMK AO2 P0002 T01390122 KJAN 180754Z AUTO 22003KT 4SM +RA BR BKN007 BKN037 OVC045 13/13 A2979 RMK AO2 TSE08 SLP084 P0032 T01330128 KJAN 180723Z AUTO 31004KT 3SM +RA BR BKN004 OVC041 14/13 A2977 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N TSE08 P0018 T01440133
Some say ALDARS will not report LTG with a TS at the station, only with a VCTS. Not true-
KJAN 180524Z AUTO 27012G26KT 2SM R16L/5500VP6000FT +TSRA BR BKN021 OVC044 17/15 A2977 RMK AO2 PK WND 30027/0455 WSHFT 0443 LTG DSNT ALQDS TSB18 P0077 T01670150
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Post by coldlover on Nov 18, 2015 3:56:39 GMT -5
TS ends. Reason for the Speci. But not noted with a TSExx.
KJAN 180854Z AUTO 00000KT 9SM -RA SCT006 BKN050 OVC110 13/12 A2977 RMK AO2 TSB09 SLP077 P0025 60124 T01330122 58011 KJAN 180830Z AUTO 09004KT 5SM +RA BR FEW005 BKN055 OVC080 13/13 A2978 RMK AO2 TSB09 P0017 T01330128
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Post by zoomthundersnow on Nov 18, 2015 8:44:24 GMT -5
Here is how ALDARS Reports TS. 0-5 miles, TS in present weather, no LTG RMK. 6-10 miles, VCTS in present weather, no LTG RMK. LTG 10-30 miles, nothing in present weather, RMK LTG Direction. In your above example ALDARS is reporting the LTG that is 10-30 miles from the location, ALDARS does not report the LTG in remarks that triggered the TS. Unless someone inputs LTG in remarks for TS, VCTS, it ain't happening with ALDARS.
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Post by TCU 2U2 on Nov 18, 2015 9:08:52 GMT -5
Here is how ALDARS Reports TS. 0-5 miles, TS in present weather, no LTG RMK. 6-10 miles, VCTS in present weather, no LTG RMK. LTG 10-30 miles, nothing in present weather, RMK LTG Direction. In your above example ALDARS is reporting the LTG that is 10-30 miles from the location, ALDARS does not report the LTG in remarks that triggered the TS. Unless someone inputs LTG in remarks for TS, VCTS, it ain't happening with ALDARS. Well said zoomthundersnow ... Attached is a quick reference to point out the huge differences between ALDARS & manual CWO entries: ALDARS - 4 September 2015 - CWO vs LAWRS.pdf (496.32 KB)
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Post by tornado on Nov 18, 2015 9:11:39 GMT -5
What I want to know, is why some sites leave ALDARS enabled overnight, and others don't. According to this LTG animation, both Tuscaloosa and Meridian had lightning nearby: Yet, Meridian was in TSNO mode, while Tuscaloosa wasn't: METAR KMEI 180958Z AUTO 00000KT 3/4SM R01/4500VP6000FT +RA BR BKN014 BKN033 17/16 A2980 RMK AO2 PK WND 19028/0904 WSHFT 0924 RAB38 SLP088 P0074 T01670161 TSNOMETAR KMEI 181058Z AUTO 32006KT 1 1/2SM +RA BR FEW006 OVC019 16/16 A2980 RMK AO2 SLP088 P0152 T01560156 TSNOMETAR KTCL 181153Z AUTO 14011G21KT 1 1/2SM +TSRA BR BKN015 BKN025 OVC050 20/19 A2981 RMK AO2 RAE18B42 TSB53 SLP091 P0022 60027 70027 T02000189 10222 20200 50001 SPECI KTCL 181202Z AUTO 17008G17KT 1 1/4SM +TSRA BR FEW009 BKN015 OVC022 20/19 A2980 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N P0011 T02000194 If there is an FAA directive on when to leave ALDARS on overnight; it's either not standardized, or not being followed at some sites.
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Post by tornado on Nov 18, 2015 9:18:20 GMT -5
Attached is a quick reference to point out the huge differences between ALDARS & manual CWO entries: From page 22 of the 7900.5C: So you could even add that CWO would report LTGCG AT AP, and ALDARS won't.
Last night, while looking at lightning data from the 16-17th, I found 8 LAWRS sites, that had been struck by lightning! 3 in Texas, and 3
were in Kansas. I posted an example from KFOE in Topeka KS, on the "reliable ASOS" thread, of KFOE getting hit 8 times! So most likely, LAWRS won't carry LTGCG AT AP either.
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Post by zoomthundersnow on Nov 18, 2015 9:41:09 GMT -5
Why these jackasses think that LTG remarks are not operationally significant when a TS, and VCTS is being reported, is absolutely beyond my comprehension.
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Post by fzraman on Dec 29, 2015 19:35:36 GMT -5
another VCTS with no LTG-- but this time LTG was reported 15 min beforehand, but NOT with the VCTS. Spencer,IA KSPW 180735Z AUTO 36009KT 4SM VCTS RA BR OVC004 10/09 A2923 RMK AO2 P0014 T01000089 KSPW 180720Z AUTO 03011KT 3SM +RA BR OVC004 10/09 A2925 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT N-E P0009 T01000089 I thought that was strange to coldlover. Than I came across a Srn region Hq NWS document dtd,i2000. If I'm reading it correctly it says The FAA got a system that reports TS when LTGCG is within 5 and VCTS when the cloud to ground is 5-10. DSNT LTG is reported for strikes 10-30. No LTG direction is ever reported for TS or VCTS just that they're there! ?? One more thing at that time ALDARS was only for FAA Sponsored ASOS because NWS did not have access to FAA comm systems!
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Post by wxmatrix on Dec 30, 2015 13:23:19 GMT -5
A lightning remark is not reported by an ASOS with ALDARS for TS and VCTS. This is clearly stated in FAA Order 7900.5C paragraph 14.29.b. on pages 111-112.
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Post by vortlobes on Jun 1, 2016 12:54:59 GMT -5
`After three long years using ALDARS now how can the program be improve upon? or other comments... My question is how long does it take for ALDARS to end a VCTS or TS in minutes once removed from PR WX by delete, delete delete and delete..? .....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
My experience with ALDARS is that the Direction of the LTG often is not accurate. It allows way to much time for the observer to go outside and then come back to ASOS and enter the data in order... 4 minutes or more + 2-3 minutes for ALDARS to process the info from distant LTG computers, (taking a manual T storm without ALDARS is much faster with the observer knowing usually in advance that a T storm is about to strike with the data pre entered in ASOS or written down).
When a T storm starts or ends near Metar time ALDARS may xmit only a part of the necessary elements of the observation. Having worked with the NWS as an Observer/forecaster/Data Manager for 33 years I am amazed that ALDARS is still in ASOS. Most critical computer programs are axed by the NWS that have hangups or are slow after one or two months.
The Contract Weather Observer augments critical elements to the observation quickly for safety. ALDARS slows that process down significantly and is far from being accurate.
I was amazed that the FAA is impressed with ALDARS now claiming that ALDARS can detect 50% of in cloud or cloud to air, or cloud to cloud LTG....50% ....fifty percent of the time leaves many LTG bolts undetected! I thought job ONE in the FAA was safety!
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Post by hlsto2 on Jun 1, 2016 13:15:08 GMT -5
even FAA service C...atct...many times leaves ALDARS off and completely ignores tstms passing within 10 miles of the airport. see the NUMEROUS examples on this web site. I use weathertap live lightning. CG strokes will show up within 1 min. I have a 5 mile and 10 mile circle overlaid on top of the ap I work at. you might say I am ALDARS on steroids.
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Post by tornado on Jun 1, 2016 13:28:03 GMT -5
even FAA service C...atct...many times leaves ALDARS off and completely ignores tstms passing within 10 miles of the airport. see the NUMEROUS examples on this web site.... You mean like, Alexandria, Louisiana, last hour? METAR KAEX 011653Z AUTO 10008KT 10SM FEW022 FEW027 BKN065 28/23 A2996 RMK AO2 SLP147 T02830228 TSNOSPECI KAEX 011730Z AUTO 18013G21KT 2 1/2SM +RA BR SCT021 BKN029 BKN046 23/22 A2998 RMK AO2 RAB25 P0008 T02330217 TSNOSPECI KAEX 011734Z AUTO 15011G20KT 1 1/2SM +RA BR SCT022 BKN031 OVC048 23/21 A2998 RMK AO2 RAB25 P0011 T02280211 TSNOSPECI KAEX 011746Z 24003KT 3SM -RA BR FEW013 BKN024 OVC075 23/22 A2998 RMK AO2 RAB25 P0014 T02280217 METAR KAEX 011753Z 00000KT 3SM -RA BR SCT015 BKN030 BKN047 23/22 A2997 RMK AO2 RAB25 SLP152 P0014 60014 T02330217 10283 20222 53001
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Post by hlsto2 on Jul 9, 2016 1:13:50 GMT -5
ft smith ar lawrs...suspect an obstroller foulup here. TSNO at 0253...a TS that never began ended at 0355...but not really as VCTS is in present wx
KFSM 090401Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM VCTS SCT049 28/25 A3000 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT ALQDS TSE0355 T02780250 KFSM 090353Z AUTO 19004KT 10SM TS BKN049 28/25 A2999 RMK AO2 LTG DSNT ALQDS RAE03 SLP149 P0000 T02780250 KFSM 090253Z AUTO 01006KT 10SM -RA BKN045 BKN070 OVC090 28/26 A2999 RMK AO2 RAB27 SLP151 P0003 60003 T02830256 53029 TSNO
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