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Post by micatlwx on Jun 7, 2016 14:58:20 GMT -5
HI EVERYONE THE AFL-CIO PROVIDES THE LOBBYIST THAT ARE AFFILIATED AND FUNDED THROUGH IN PART VIA PATCO. ALSO I HAVE ADRESSED THE ISSUES DISSCUSSED ON THIS FORUM CONCERNING SAM WITH MARK AND HE ASSUED ME THAT THEY WILL BE DEALT WITH. HE ALSO STATED THAT HE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM EACH OF YOU CONCERNING THE ISSUES AT HAND
SINCERELY
MICATLWX
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Post by coldlover on Jun 7, 2016 15:06:02 GMT -5
Where was Patco at the local 57 site SRMP's? (or those that are Union) When the going got tough-- and when we could have used that extra voice against a stacked deck -- Patco was non-existent except for a few pep rallies over the phone??? "but we all need to work together - even the contractors with us. Courage is the determination to do things in spite of our fear." The 57 local SRMP's -- nearly all 57 were alone at the Battle of Stalingrad with the Russian winter coming in all its splendor-- no support, no communication, most highly unprepared for the oncoming onslaught. -- 57 Cwo's left out to die a nasty death-- but Hitler saying ( in a few phone calls from Patco) -- keep fighting?? to face the FAA?? A little support at the meetings-- a little "lawyered up" strategy would certainly have helped the morale of the goats (CWO's) led to the slaughter-- maybe not in the end game,, but at least give us a morphine shot before the final blow. All aside-- some of us survived the SRMP's and a few of us kicked the FAA's ass. Why would we feel any different after being abandoned -- and still winning?? Show me some real proof of blood/guts pAtco-- and then I will listen. A news letter of how some certain sites killed the FAA's plan (for the time being) -- or just general BS how it all went down would do wonders for your respect. Is that too much to ask? Or am I being obtuse?
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Post by micatlwx on Jun 7, 2016 15:06:48 GMT -5
TO THE PERSON THAT SAID I HAVE BEEN DOING NOTHING JUST BECAUSE I HAVE NOT BEEN ON THIS FORUM I HAVE BEEN WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES WITH PATCO AND OTHER SITE SUPERVISORS TO STOP THE CLOSURE SINCE THE SPRING OF 2012.
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Post by rich on Jun 7, 2016 15:08:07 GMT -5
I HAVE ADRESSED THE ISSUES DISSCUSSED ON THIS FORUM CONCERNING SAM WITH MARK AND HE ASSUED ME THAT THEY WILL BE DEALT WITH. HE ALSO STATED THAT HE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM EACH OF YOU CONCERNING THE ISSUES AT HAND
SINCERELY
MICATLWX Sam needs to be replaced. That is the only issue at hand.
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Post by swifterz on Jun 7, 2016 15:09:27 GMT -5
HI EVERYONE THE AFL-CIO PROVIDES THE LOBBYIST THAT ARE AFFILIATED AND FUNDED THROUGH IN PART VIA PATCO. ALSO I HAVE ADRESSED THE ISSUES DISSCUSSED ON THIS FORUM CONCERNING SAM WITH MARK AND HE ASSUED ME THAT THEY WILL BE DEALT WITH. HE ALSO STATED THAT HE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM EACH OF YOU CONCERNING THE ISSUES AT HAND
SINCERELY
MICATLWX All that needs to be done to inform him & PATCO of the issues at hand is to forward him the link to this thread. They are receiving a lot of funding from us and we shouldn't to beg for information on what they are really doing to help us. The reason I think that most of us are at wits end with them is because they were no where to be found during the 2013 closure attempts, and now the same thing from them, which is nothing. At this point PATCO needs to walk the walk and get all the information (think quarterly newsletter that hasn't been released in god knows how long) out on what they are doing to help us out, instead of relying on a messengers.
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Post by swifterz on Jun 7, 2016 15:13:00 GMT -5
TO THE PERSON THAT SAID I HAVE BEEN DOING NOTHING JUST BECAUSE I HAVE NOT BEEN ON THIS FORUM I HAVE BEEN WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES WITH PATCO AND OTHER SITE SUPERVISORS TO STOP THE CLOSURE SINCE THE SPRING OF 2012. What have you been doing then? I haven't seen anything in a newsletter or email to shop stewards to pass along to everyone at their sites. If you haven't been active on this forums, you'd prolly have no clue how dire the situation has been.
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Post by coldlover on Jun 7, 2016 15:14:41 GMT -5
TO THE PERSON THAT SAID I HAVE BEEN DOING NOTHING JUST BECAUSE I HAVE NOT BEEN ON THIS FORUM I HAVE BEEN WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES WITH PATCO AND OTHER SITE SUPERVISORS TO STOP THE CLOSURE SINCE THE SPRING OF 2012. I thank you for that. It was me that called you out. Keep on keeping on. PM myself as I'am in a small group that is also leading the charge.-- one of the several members that took part in the Association letter--- The more the merrier.
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Post by rich on Jun 7, 2016 15:19:07 GMT -5
I HAVE ADRESSED THE ISSUES DISSCUSSED ON THIS FORUM CONCERNING SAM WITH MARK AND HE ASSUED ME THAT THEY WILL BE DEALT WITH. HE ALSO STATED THAT HE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM EACH OF YOU CONCERNING THE ISSUES AT HAND
SINCERELY
MICATLWX Sam needs to be replaced. That is the only issue at hand. This is where Sam lost all credibility: First showed up last May: May 13, 2015 at 1:35pm chachiman said: Guys, This is the deal! Sam just assured me after talking and voicing our concerns to him for about 15 minutes that we would have a voice at the meeting. He said that they have a lobbyist group that will be inside at the meeting. They will be voicing the bad decision once again this will be. Read more: wxobservers.freeforums.net/thread/695/official-communication-patco#ixzz4Atx4SZi1 I know you know who chachiman is and for that scumbag Sam to attempt to blow him off with that BS about a lobbyist group being inside the meeting was just wrong. He should have been replaced then.
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Post by zoomthundersnow on Jun 7, 2016 22:49:22 GMT -5
I speak for myself, had an early SRMP and tried to share what I learned from the process with whoever would listen about facing the latest in Safety Risk Management. I like a challenge, makes life a little edgy, People who live in "FEAR" have other folks do their talking. A simple response directly from PATCO on Union activity is reasonable. We are the Union, so maybe we can have a say in who is in charge, the current regime has Weather Observers speaking for them. I'm not a Contractor, I'm the Senior Weather Observer in Billings, Montana.
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Post by alstein on Jun 8, 2016 0:44:17 GMT -5
At this point the lack of communication is bad enough we either need new leadership, or a new union. Wondering if the union is even worth the money- negotiated pay isn't worth anything if we don't have jobs.
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Post by rich on Jun 8, 2016 7:37:59 GMT -5
At this point the lack of communication is bad enough we either need new leadership, or a new union. Wondering if the union is even worth the money- negotiated pay isn't worth anything if we don't have jobs. Depending where you work you don't have to pay dues to get the union benefits. In a situation where the union has proven non responsive it is a good option to exercise. www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/employee-rights-book/chapter15-5.html
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Post by chachiman on Jun 8, 2016 13:58:21 GMT -5
The ONLY issue right now that I have with PATCO is their serious LACK of communication on what they are working on for us. I am tired of having to go directly to them before they come to me. And also, I am tired of seeing them send emails out to a select few members about things that WE found out about already with our own contacts in Washington, D.C. or through our own bosses. How are our dues being spent and to what good uses are they going for? is what we want to know. The little Bottomline magazine PATCO sends out is nowhere near enough. We need better email and telephone communication from them. We just want to know what PATCO is doing from month to month. Most of us I believe are paying members and it would be very nice if we heard from them on their own accord more than once a year. I know if I ran a union as small as PATCO, all my members would know what was going on ALL the time. But that is just how I operate. Get er done philosophy, but keep as many people in the loop as possible. And as far as this association thing goes, it mostly is to just organize the weather observers across the country better and to also give us a more uniformed, collective voice of our own in Washington, D.C. the next plan the FAA draws up. It also is being formed to allow for the Aviation stakeholders to support us with what is going on in a better more fluid way. We want what the Federal Contract Towers have. They have their own Association and we want ours now. This is a long time coming. We could have gotten better organized as soon as the FAA cut all the C and D sites back in the early 2000's, but we didn't. It is imperative from the signs of the times, we need as many people working diligently along side Congress and the FAA HQ's folks to come up with a solution to end this controversy once and for all over whether or not to shut the CWO Program down. We need safety advocate groups along with weather coalition groups fighting for us on Capital Hill and that is what we are shooting for with forming our own Association. With what our labor union PATCO is already doing, along with our Contract Vendors, and now along with all the weather observers across this land, we will now have more power and leverage in Washington. In numbers, we can succeed! We need only to persuade the FAA the importance of our jobs as weather observers and the importance of providing quality weather information to the flying and weather public. Time to stop all the bickering and fighting! Agree to disagree and ALL Weather Observers Unite. We want our own legislative representation that is about as grass roots as you can get working for all 135 stations in Washington, D.C. along with the lobbyists we already have there. I am talking with weathercoalition.org/ and they help represent weather entities such as Boeing, Accu-weather, Unisys weather, Raytheon, and tons more. They are very interested in how the FAA treated us at our panel meetings this past winter. I am looking into other organizations that are weather related and have weather interests to join us in our effort to stop the FAA from taking our professional jobs away from us. There are many extremely proactive managers and Weather Observers out there already working diligently, but the more people we get outside of the realm of our scopes to support us, the better of we will be to stick around for a bit longer. It is my hope for someone with PATCO to read this post and heed to our requests, because there are too many people out there that they represent that are extremely dissatisfied with their performance with us during this last bitter fight we have had to try to save our jobs. We must unite, not bicker! Steady and together will win the race. God Bless All and let's protect each other and what we stand for and that is to maintain the highest level of weather safety we can for our flying customers.
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Post by toofarnorth on Jun 8, 2016 14:27:02 GMT -5
Rich, you keep saying "no offense intended", "no disrespect" "BUT"... that is exactly what you are doing - offending and disrespecting, and more than just me! Am I perfect? Do I know everything? Of course not. I know a lot more than you give me credit for. I am very active in trying to save the CWO program - even your job. Please stop insulting me and your fellow weather observers, and try working with PATCO instead of trying to tear them down - they ARE on our side. If you put half the effort you put into personal attacks into making calls to user groups and congress requesting their help much would be accomplished. I will waste no more time and effort responding to clueless lazy idiot bellyaching and personal ax grinding. PATCO has and will continue to serve us well. Folks having questions about PATCO and their activities, or having suggestions for them should give Sam a call. Thank you Chachiman, and Amen! and Thanks to all who are involved in working to save the CWO program.
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Post by swifterz on Jun 8, 2016 16:23:13 GMT -5
PATCO has and will continue to serve us well. Folks having questions about PATCO and their activities, or having suggestions for them should give Sam a call. I know you have done a lot to help the cause, but I just don't understand how you are so pro-union. Maybe it's because he talks to you about what they are doing and returns your phone calls. Its been mentioned many many times in this thread and board that trying to get a hold of Sam is very difficult (So saying "just call Sam" feels like a cop out I'm sure to a lot of the people that have tried to "just call Sam"). I know my shop steward has been tried to get a hold of him many times in the last year, only to be meet with crickets. I mean what are we to think of the head of our union when he doesn't even respond back to shop stewards or others that have tried to contact him and get the answers directly from him. If they don't have the resources to do what they say they are doing, then tell us themselves via an phone call/email or a post here. The heart of the matter I think is the communication is severely lacking from PATCO, I bet there would be hardly any belly aching from most members if they just regularly communicated and showed what they are doing. We give the union a lot of money to be shut out like we are, except for the few Sam has chosen to talk to, that's not how it works. A union should keep all members informed of what they are doing, especially when said union could possibly lose all its members due to job loss. If Sam just took 10 minutes to call all the sites, he could contact 48 a day in an eight hour shift. So in three days he could personally communicate to every steward or SWO what PATCO is doing. If I was in your position the next time I spoke with Sam I'd tell him I'm not passing along the information that he wants you to, and instead insist he either calls/emails the shop stewards/SWO's or make a thread on these here forums.
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Post by toofarnorth on Jun 9, 2016 14:33:03 GMT -5
Swifterz, I agree with you. I am not really their spokesman and I'm amazed that this seems to have fallen to me. I just want to prevent the splitting of us as a group as there is strength in numbers. I don't think anyone on this thread is lying about their difficulty talking to Sam, and I've let both him and Mark know they need to communicate - and they've said they will do better (whatever that means...)- keep trying. Sam answers/returns my calls - and sometimes I get passed off to his Dad Mark when Sam can't help me. The venom from some seems to me to be misplaced and/or highly inflated, and some of it has been festering for years. As for my being "pro-union": if you really knew me and how conservative I am politically and my self-employed business background, perhaps you would understand my motivation a bit better - We MUST stick together and help each other out. I am on my State Republican Party Central Committee and am actively promoting our cause and candidates who support us, among other issues. The union has its place - I really like collective bargaining and structured discipline processes, but hate the idea of employees telling someone how to run their business (which PATCO refrains from, including that restraint in their CBAs). I like the idea of the association, but want to see some details. PATCO has interest in keeping us open! They are and should be our allies in the war to keep the CWOs open. I can, and desire to, work with anyone willing to work with me - but if I'm doing much for those who won't, I lose interest - it takes ALL of us to fend off the FAA predators.
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